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    Greetings, and a question!

     
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    frankm



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 9

    PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:15 pm    Post subject: Greetings, and a question! Reply with quote

    Hi guys

    Thanks for the great forum! I feel as if I have well and truly landed on my feet, having just launched my first Clickbank product yesterday.

    My question is... For the last three days my credit card has been rejected by Clickbank. It has been accepted everywhere else.

    Anyone else experienced problems like this?

    Tim one of the products I was rejected for was your Clickbank Definitive Guide... through Harvey's affiliate link... LOL

    Frank
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    Harvey Segal
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    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3148

    PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Greetings, and a question! Reply with quote

    frankm wrote:
    Tim one of the products I was rejected for was your Clickbank Definitive Guide... through Harvey's affiliate link... LOL



    Who's laughing ?

    And out loud for that matter.

    Harvey
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    Steve



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 75
    Location: Boise, Idaho USA

    PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Frank,

    Email me your info --
    Date/Time of attempt
    email you used to make the purchase
    first four/last four digits of the card

    I will check it out for you.

    Send it to steve@clickbank.com
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    Tim Coulter
    Site Admin


    Joined: 07 Apr 2004
    Posts: 26
    Location: France

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Greetings, and a question! Reply with quote

    frankm wrote:

    Tim one of the products I was rejected for was your Clickbank Definitive Guide... through Harvey's affiliate link... LOL


    Hi Frank.

    Congratulations on your first ClickBank product launch. Why didn't you include a link so we can all take a look?

    Like Harvey, I'm not laughing about your purchase problems, but it's good that you have a sense of humor Smile

    I am sure Steve will help you to sort out your own difficulties, but it would also be useful if he would post back here to let us know whether this issue is more widespread and what we should do, as vendors, to help our buyers to resolve incidents like these.

    Tim

    Tim
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    frankm



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 9

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Tim

    The link is in my sig file.

    I have a special offer through the Warrior Forum (anyone interested in the special mail me at frank at mullen.net). I will not advertise it here since it is officially a Warrior Special!

    Interestingly I just got an email from a potential customer saying:

    "Regarding your Niche Database Warrior Offer for $37, I tried to order through clickbank but my credit card was rejected for the past 2 days. My card is absolutely 'good'and this is not the first time I'm having this problem with clickbank."

    This is exactly the same problem I'm having. I got a reply from Steve saying he'd look into it. It has happened me before for maybe a day at a time and then it would work again.

    I'm the same, my CC worked perfectly in Clickbank until Saturday and for the last 4 days, nothing.

    Could this be more widespread?

    Don't worry Tim, I'm still looking forward to buying your guide!

    Frank
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    Tony Newton



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 7
    Location: UK

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Frank

    I've had problems in the past with Clickbank not accepting my card
    but I've found this has only been the case when I've made a few purchases through them within a couple of days.

    If I leave it a couple of days and retry it usually works ok.

    Tony
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    frankm



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 9

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Tony

    That's happened me before, but this time is 4 days, which is quite unusual.

    Still, I'll try again tomorrow.

    I forwarded the email I got onto Steve from Clickbank, so at least they're aware that it's not just my problem.

    Tim, Harvey and Adrian, the forum seems to be having the desired effect!

    Frank
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    JohnHocking



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 16
    Location: Saint Louis, MO

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:02 pm    Post subject: I have the same problem, OFTEN! Reply with quote

    frankm wrote:

    My question is... For the last three days my credit card has been rejected by Clickbank. It has been accepted everywhere else.



    Clickbank has a spending limit filter in place. I seem to always
    set it off myself. I am not sure what the limit its, but I know if I spend
    more then about $120 in a week, I have to wait 3 to 7 days before I
    can order again.

    I have written to them asking to be exempted but they can't do that.

    The filter also seems to be ip based because I can not even use
    a different card during the banned period.
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    CorpRebel



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 7
    Location: Rhode Island USA

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I have the same problem, OFTEN! Reply with quote

    JohnHocking wrote:
    frankm wrote:

    My question is... For the last three days my credit card has been rejected by Clickbank. It has been accepted everywhere else.



    Clickbank has a spending limit filter in place. I seem to always
    set it off myself. I am not sure what the limit its, but I know if I spend
    more then about $120 in a week, I have to wait 3 to 7 days before I
    can order again.

    I have written to them asking to be exempted but they can't do that.

    The filter also seems to be ip based because I can not even use
    a different card during the banned period.


    Hi John,

    Hmmmm ... that means if something at CB is $150 you CAN'T buy it?? Shocked

    I can understand a daily amount of "online transactions" but to limit purchases to a set amount per week (instead of per day) is a bit much. I realize Internet credit card fraud is a serious problem but CB (along with PayPal) seem to be in "overkill" mode.

    Also, I do understand that these 3rd party payment processors have to go by certain rules set by the credit card companies. But I don't think that the above problems are necessarily related.

    I occasionally have tried to complete multiple "online" transactions in the same day and sometimes after the first two, I can't complete a third online purchase. I called the bank (my CC issuer) and they told me that they had a limit on the amount of online transactions per "day". BUT ... that if I called their service center and verify my identity they would release the lock.

    Nowadays, I'm sure most credit card issuers have their own set of rules for this but it IS something else to consider if your CC is declined.

    But the above CB issue seems to be CB inflicted one.

    My 3 cents anyway ...


    To YOUR ClickBank Success!

    Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel Cool
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    Steve



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 75
    Location: Boise, Idaho USA

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Fraud Controls and Spending Limits Reply with quote

    ClickBank, like all retailers with merchant status, has rules imposed on it by Visa and MasterCard. Specifically, we get into deep doo doo with them if our chargeback rate (consumers who call the bank to complain and have a charge reversed) ever exceeds 1% of the total purchases. Violation of these rules lead to large fines, and ultimately to disqualification and expulsion from the Visa/MC system. In my career with First Data Corp, I saw merchants get into chargeback trouble that led to fines of over $10 million.

    In a non face-to-face environment (i.e., the Internet), fraud is rampant and it can be very challenging to keep chargebacks under the Visa/MC thresholds.

    Over the years, we have developed very sophisticated fraud control systems to keep us in compliance with the card associations. These controls have worked very well, and Visa MC are satisfied with our performance. We aim to keep it that way.

    One of the many tools we use has a velocity component, that is, tracking the number and amount of purchases made by a customer in a given short window of time. Often, a crook using stolen cards will make a fraud run (many purchases in a short time frame, to maximize use of the stolen card before the bank finaly closes the account). Velocity limits are an effective tool to limit fraud runs.

    Since we see higher fraud atempts in different parts of the world, the velocity limits are based in part on where the transactions are originating from.

    Occasionally, you may get a complaint that a "perfectly good card" has been declined by ClickBank. We hate it when that happens, but as you can see, the stakes are very high. We have to protect our status with Visa and MC.

    Trust me when I say that we want the sale as bad as you do! The only practical thing to do when someone gets a decline, is to let the customer know they may have tripped our fraud control systems, and to please try again in a day or two. I know this may not be the answer some of were looking for, but at least I hope you understand our reasoning.
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    flyer



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 202
    Location: Florida

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Why then can I buy stuff from amazon all day long without hitting this problem? Aren't they subject to the same rules from the credit card companies?

    And is it true this applies even if you try a different card?

    One reason this is so frustrating is that to the customer, they are buying products from several different sites, so if mine happened to be the one where the card was rejected, to them it looks like the problem is with my site.

    Why should there ever be a chargeback on a Clickbank purchase, when refunds are so generously given? Does Clickbank fight these, or just pass on the fees?
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    Steve



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 75
    Location: Boise, Idaho USA

    PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Flyer,

    I can't speak to Amazon's policies, HOWEVER, shipped goods typically have a far lower chargeback rate than electronically delivered products/services. This is especially true for books and such, but is not true for highly-fenceable goods like consumer electronics or jewelry.

    Merchants who ship goods have proof of delivery, which can be used effectively to defend against chargebacks. Digital goods have no such proof available, and Visa rarely overturn chargebacks without a physical signature or at least proof of delivery. IP address and time stamp, or other electronic evidence is not acceptable.

    I know it sucks -- but it's just part of the cost of doing business in our industry.
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    Arun Agrawal



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 20
    Location: Calcutta, India

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Another question from India Reply with quote

    Steve

    While on this topic, I have realised that people in India cannot buy stuff priced over $50 at CB. I always thought there is a fraud protection limit in place.

    Just in case, I badly need to buy something priced higher, is there a way to take explicit permission?
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    John Taylor



    Joined: 16 Apr 2004
    Posts: 6
    Location: The English Lake District

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Steve,

    While I am sure we can all appreciate the need for fraud protection and to maintain the standards laid down by your providers, I wonder if you would consider a couple of suggestions?

    1. The opportunity for the merchant to enter an alternative "Thank-you" page in the event of a card being rejected. This would at least allow us the opportunity of providing our own explanation and, even though you may not like this part, an alternative payment option. We might even be able to capture the prospects email address!

    2. The opportunity for customers to add funds to their accounts so that purchases could be made from an account balance rather than processing the credit card for each individual purchase. This would avoid multiple card uses and you could perhaps put the funds in escrow for a short period to prevent funds being drawn immediately by fraudulent use of the card.

    3. Some form of "Verified Customer" status where you could add an additional code word or pin number into the transaction that would allow you the security to "relax" the controls for our "good customers". I must admit I find it very frustration that I am often not allowed to spend my own money! There are occasions when I have wanted to buy a number of products and was unable to complete a project in time because Clickbank declined my card.

    4. At the very least you might consider providing the specific reason for declining the card at the point of transaction. The big red list of possibilities doesn't really help. We may not lose as many sales if it was made clear at the time that the card had exceeded a "number of transactions" limit and please return in two days to try again. Alternatively you could offer a reminder service. Please click this box and we will email you in two days when your card can be re-used.

    OK, sorry - it's more than a couple!

    Take care

    John
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    frankm



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 9

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    All great points John

    I particularly agree with the need to provide the proper explanation for why the transaction was declined.

    I'm not sure on this one, since I haven't been selling through Clickbank for long. But if someone's card is refused the seller should be notified of that person's email address so they can follow up with them and try and retain them as a customer.

    Does this happen? It may lead to Clickbank losing a few sales but it would be less frustrating for vendor and buyer, which surely is the name of the game.

    Frank
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    hartworks



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
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    Location: Colorado

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    flyer wrote:


    And is it true this applies even if you try a different card?



    I have stubbed my toe on this situation quite a few times, but I have always succeeded in using another credit card or my bank account. We have two credit cards for business purchases, and two business checking accounts, so that has worked out. I do prefer to use a particular credit card, and once when I asked for a refund on a bad product, then I couldn't use that card with CB for a while.
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