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    Is noadware a scam?

     
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    Jenpropro



    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
    Posts: 11
    Location: California

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject: Is noadware a scam? Reply with quote

    Does anyone know if noadware is a scam?

    I tried promoting noadware and I found out that they are indeed a possible scam. I noticed about 2 months ago that thir home page stated they had 3 million downloads. that;s reasonable. then I noticed about a month later they had 6 million downloads..then 2 weeks later they claimed to have 12 million downloads. if you look today they are up to 16,700,000. They are now using an autoamtic counter that just adds "false" downloads. I'm affraid that this must be illegal to lie to customers like this and try to "deceive" them that they are receiving this many downloads. If the FTC checks into them I am ceryain that they will be sued, and I believe that they can hold all of the funds generated by them from all affiliates.

    Another note, their software locates false positives, and doesn't really work. This is probably why the refund rate I saw was so high. did anyone else see high refunds and charge backs?

    I just began promoting a different anti-spyware product and I have found it to be very legitimate, and the chargebacks/refunds off of my first 400 sales was below 2%.
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    joeyc



    Joined: 30 Aug 2004
    Posts: 25

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:56 pm    Post subject: Noadware Reply with quote

    They certainly are not a scam. A simple check on alexa.com shows that, their traffic numbers are absolutely huge. I do not find it completely impossible for them to be pushing that many downloads. My noadware refund rate has also remained low as well. What product are you now promoting?

    -Joe
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    Jenpropro



    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
    Posts: 11
    Location: California

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Joe, thank you for the wonderful sales pitch of noadware that you are offering, I'm sure they will bump your commissions up for that.

    How can their download numbers grow faster than the spybot numbers on download.com, and Spybot is a free program, and more heavily known by the masses? Sorry Joe, that counter on the noadware homepage is a bunch of mularky, and as fake as Marv Albert's hair.

    Secondly, if those were true numbers then their sales numbers would be tremendously high, and they would have received press in numerous magazines, and they would have a much better application than the one they are selling.

    Here's more proof that their application may be a scam:
    http://www.spywarewarrior.com/family_resemblances.htm#8

    So here's my main concern, if I promote a site that may be doing illegal marketing ploys, can I get into any legal trouble as well?

    I tried emailing them to ask if those download numbers were legitimate, but I never received a reply. Can someone help?
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    joeyc



    Joined: 30 Aug 2004
    Posts: 25

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:49 am    Post subject: Jen Reply with quote

    Jen, I attempted to help you with my post to avoid you making a complete moron out of yourself. As I am sure you are well accustomed to by now, you failed miserably. So I will attempt to address your post with actual fact, rather than mindless rambling.

    As I said previously, simply checking out noadware's stats on alexa is all you need to do.

    They are currently ranked 3,565 on the web, that being, the 3,565th most visited site on the internet according to alexa's stats. They have also been ranked under 5000 for almost the entire year of 2004, and have recently moved into the #1 spot in the Clickbank marketplace under Computing and Internet, a very popular category.

    Spywarenuker, a competing product, and number 1 product for much of 2003 and 2004 before being replaced by noadware, has an alexa ranking of 6,776 currently, and they recently released a story claiming they had reached 6,000,000 registered users.

    Now here is where it might get really complicated for you, so if you need more explanation, do let me know. As some of us are well are being "Internet Marketers", taking a rough estimate of 1 in 25 people purchasing above, that means nuker is claiming 150 million downloads. Are they lying too? I understand working at Wendy's 9-5 might make understanding the concepts above a bit hard, so please let us know should you have any questions. I am sure me or one of the other competent actual "marketers" on this board might be able to set you straight a bit more

    I am also contacting my contact at noadware to make them aware of this post, since you claim to know with some certainty what you are claiming, so although I am not a lawyer, I am sure your claims might be considered by some as completely slanderous and unfounded.

    Get a clue

    -Joe
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    CharlesWaters



    Joined: 03 Jun 2004
    Posts: 262
    Location: Palm Bay, Florida

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I sell NoAdware as well and with good results. My customers are happy and my return rate is low. I've had similar success with XoftSpy and Spyware Nuker. I tested them and found them to be okay.
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    Jenpropro



    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
    Posts: 11
    Location: California

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    If a website that an affiliate promotes is claiming "false" information, can the affiliate suffer any legal action for promoting the product?

    Joe, I would rather not receive a rude reply from you, as I do not. Let's all be polite here and help one another out so we can all make a nice income.

    If you do know a contact at noadware please have them inofrm you if that number of downloads is legitimate. If it is then as long as they give their word on that number we should be safe in case it is not true. I am all about making money, but not willing to make money by deception.

    Joe, I do apologize for my rude remark to you. It was unprofessional. I hope you can accept my apology.

    Thanks
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    joeyc



    Joined: 30 Aug 2004
    Posts: 25

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:49 am    Post subject: hey Reply with quote

    No problem at all Jen. I would bet with almost all certainty that the # is certainly legitimate, as all matters in the past have been handled very professionally and quickly by their team. If you post your email in this forum, I am sure they will email you, as I know they do come on this forum and I have emailed them the link as I had previously stated.

    Let us know how it goes

    -Joe
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    noadware



    Joined: 22 Oct 2004
    Posts: 2

    PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Jen,

    We were directed to this post by some of our affiliates, and felt the need to respond publicly about what you have posted. The Noadware.net download counter is 100% legitimate, and all numbers posted are absolutely valid. All downloads on our site are counted, and a database is constantly updated as we receive more downloads. The number comes directly from our database in real time. We are also in the process of acquiring independent auditing regarding the numbers posted.

    We have not received any email regarding our download counter, and you have not responded to our attempts to contact you via the email posted on your clickbanksuccessforum account. We can not help but question the motives of your post. Regardless, should you wish to discuss this matter further, or should any affiliates require our attention, you can reach us at affiliates (at) noadware.net

    Best Regards
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    Jenpropro



    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
    Posts: 11
    Location: California

    PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Please resend that email noadware as I never received it. thank you. Yes, I have no motives. I just want to make sure that I won't get into any trouble if I promote something that is not accurately telling the truth, not just your product, but all products in general. I have been reading numerous articles lately on how the FTC is cracking down hard on Internet advertisers and how they attract "consumers" to persuade them to purchase their products. I also am aware that offline advertising has to be 100% factual, or they can expect a lawsuit, and I'm sure that the FTC is going to apply the same rules to all Internet marketing/advertising within a few months.

    I just don't want a lawsuit on my hands. So I guess my motives are that I don't like jail, nor would I enjoy losing money in a lawsuit. Sorry, but I have to play it safe, and legit.

    When you have that independant audit completed then I may feel more comfortable. I was only suspicious because your numbers jumped from 3 million to almost 17 million in 60 days or so. I don't think you should suspect motives behind this concern. But thank you for replying to this post.
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    Paul



    Joined: 22 Oct 2004
    Posts: 1

    PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:06 pm    Post subject: Check This Site Out for Information On NoAdware Reply with quote

    If this site is as legit as it seems to be then
    noadware may be a scam:

    http://www.spywarewarrior.com

    And if you want a good laugh, look at what
    he has to say about clicking on Adwords Ads. Smile

    Paul
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    astracker



    Joined: 07 Jun 2004
    Posts: 253

    PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I have no opinions about whether noadware is a scam or not, but wanted to post these threads for reference:

    http://www.spywarewarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=4149&highlight=noadware
    http://www.spywarewarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=4098&highlight=noadware

    They are also on the "Rogue Antispyware list":
    http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

    Keep it mind that sometimes users can be less than, well, less than ahem "savvy" (to not use a nastier word), and sometimes gripe and complain when they just don't understand a piece of software.
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    Fred E



    Joined: 27 Jul 2004
    Posts: 128

    PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Is noadware a scam? Reply with quote

    Sorry "Jenpropro", I just had to respond to some of the more absurd statements you made:

    Jenpropro wrote:
    I tried promoting noadware and I found out that they are indeed a possible scam.


    Double negative anyone?

    Quote:
    Another note, their software locates false positives, and doesn't really work. This is probably why the refund rate I saw was so high. did anyone else see high refunds and charge backs?


    The software works. Does it work as well as some others available? Maybe, maybe not. I have promoted NoAdware for a while and the refunds are average.

    Quote:
    I just began promoting a different anti-spyware product and I have found it to be very legitimate, and the chargebacks/refunds off of my first 400 sales was below 2%.


    Ok sounds great...what's your problem than, lol?

    Quote:
    Joe, thank you for the wonderful sales pitch of noadware that you are offering, I'm sure they will bump your commissions up for that.


    Quite the ridiculous statement - but I DO respect you for having the guts to have not edited it out by now...

    Quote:
    How can their download numbers grow faster than the spybot numbers on download.com, and Spybot is a free program, and more heavily known by the masses?


    Hmmm...lets think about that one for a sec.

    Spybot = Free = No affiliates = MUCH less marketing/advertising

    NoAdware = $$$ = Too many affiliates = Can't search for anything remotely having to do with computers on google without running into an adword-ad for NoAdware.

    Do you know how many adwords ads there currently are for Spybot? C'mon, this is basic marketing...

    Quote:
    Secondly, if those were true numbers then their sales numbers would be tremendously high, and they would have received press in numerous magazines, and they would have a much better application than the one they are selling.


    So let me get this straight - To be truly rich/successful, one must have lots of press in numerous magazines, or they are a fraud. (Boy, all those people that bought Traffic Secrets are going to be really pissed when they find out, because I didn't see John Reese in even ONE magazine...)

    Quote:
    Let's all be polite here and help one another out so we can all make a nice income.


    Super Idea!
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    Fred
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    WebFusion



    Joined: 19 Apr 2004
    Posts: 748

    PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    To be truly rich/successful, one must have lots of press in numerous magazines, or they are a fraud.


    I wouldn't say that...you can make a lot of money in this business doing some very underhanded things (anyone remember Joe Kumar?)

    I also don't think your John Reese comparison is valid (apples and oranges, as they say).

    I'm an avid reader of just about every PC magazine in existence, and the poster above is correct in saying that main-stream applications that truly "stand out" DO start getting some press time, as geeks start passing the word, which in turn makes it to the geeks who write the reviews, etc.

    Let's be hoest with ourselves here....many of CB's software "applications" are simply clones of each other, each with a different interface (not unlike the 2-3 dozen "paid survey" sites).

    So many people are completely missing the CB "boat" by going with the herd and trying to push these programs....ah well, more for me Wink

    I think the next 18-24 months is going to be a real eye-opener for some people...from the people selling quesitonable software (dvd x-copy got the smackdown from the movie industry, don;t you think an even smaller company would be easy pickins'?)...not to mention the fact that the way many of these "survey sites" are being marketd is sure to bring some attention formt he FTC, if it hasn't already (I'd hate to be the owner of one of those when the FTC decided to freeze their assets).

    Ah well...I've strolled way off topic here.
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    Jenpropro



    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
    Posts: 11
    Location: California

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Fred E, thanks for the break down of my email. I wish that it was the people at noadware that would be the ones to break it down as masterfully as you have, but I guess you must really know your stuff! Bravo Fred E, let me say it agin, BRAVO!

    You obviously do not understand the anti-spyware market whatsoever. Spybot is mentioned on thousands of websites, on thousands of radio shows, and has even been mentioned on CNN, and other various news shows as well as offline magazines such as PC World, and is the number two download for anti-spyware on download.com where they are showing 750,000 downloads last week. Lavasoft's ad aware is number 1, and they receive even more press.

    The Noadware tracker is showing about 500,000 downloads now since last week, and they are only promoted by clickbank affiliates on search engines, no where else. It seems highly suspect that their numbers could be as similar to spybot as they are.

    So once again, does anyone know if a publisher can face legal action if they promote a product that uses misleading/fraudulent tactics in order to generate sales from unsuspecting consumers.
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    Fred E



    Joined: 27 Jul 2004
    Posts: 128

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Jenpropro wrote:
    Fred E, thanks for the break down of my email. I wish that it was the people at noadware that would be the ones to break it down as masterfully as you have, but I guess you must really know your stuff! Bravo Fred E, let me say it agin, BRAVO!


    Thanks! Very Happy

    Quote:
    You obviously do not understand the anti-spyware market whatsoever.


    Perhaps if you had said I don't understand spyware programs, than you might have been somewhat right....

    However, since I make quite a nice sum of money every day from the spyware market, I think I have quite a nice grasp on how the market works...I think it is YOU who does not understand the spyware market or else you'd be out making money with it, instead of worrying about your pointless conspiracy theory

    Quote:
    The Noadware tracker is showing about 500,000 downloads now since last week, and they are only promoted by clickbank affiliates on search engines, no where else. It seems highly suspect that their numbers could be as similar to spybot as they are.


    Once again, you're showing your ignorance of basic marketing principles...good luck in this business.

    Quote:
    So once again, does anyone know if a publisher can face legal action if they promote a product that uses misleading/fraudulent tactics in order to generate sales from unsuspecting consumers.


    If you honestly believe a company is using these tactics, why would you want to affiliate yourself with them anyways?

    Is it only wrong if you face potential prosecution?

    Finally, I think arguing back in forth in forums is the biggest waste of time there is, so I won't be responding to this thread anymore. Good luck with all your endeavors, Jen.
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    noadware



    Joined: 22 Oct 2004
    Posts: 2

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Jen Reply with quote

    Jen,

    We once again felt it necessary to publicly respond to what you have posted. If you simply analyze our traffic stats, or various rankings around the web, you would find a wealth of information that supports our download numbers.

    We have attempted to contact you numerous times but have not received a response. It is our opinion that you might simply be a competitor attempting to discredit us or steer away potential affiliates from our program. We can publicly state once more that all download #s posted on our site are 100% factual, and we work hard to ensure that all advertising related to our site complies with all applicable standards and laws.
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3148

    PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Jen,

    Noadware has now replied twice to your questions and
    denied your claims of exaggerated numbers.

    They have also mentioned that they will be 'acquiring
    independent auditing regarding the numbers posted'.

    I am happy with their response and suggest that
    if you have further questions you should contact them
    directly.

    This thread is now closed.

    Harvey
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