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    Warning - why I demanded my first REFUND

     
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3147

    PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:55 am    Post subject: Warning - why I demanded my first REFUND Reply with quote

    SUPERTIPS EZINE

    Issue 115: December 5, 2005
    Harvey Segal, Editor


    Hello SuperTips readers,

    I didn't expect to be writing this issue so soon (three
    days) after the last one but I wanted to give you a
    WARNING.

    I've just requested a REFUND on a book - and I want you to
    be aware of why in case you think about purchasing.

    It's being officially launched today and I guess you'll be
    hearing a lot about it, so heed my words.

    And I'll tell you about my awkward predicament.

    Let me say at the outset I've never actually asked for a
    refund before.

    OK, quite a few products that I have purchased have not
    really been of the highest quality but I feel that if
    someone has made in good faith the not inconsiderable
    effort of producing, selling and promoting a product then
    it would be churlish to complain too much.

    As an aside - but leading to my main point - all that
    effort is unnecessary.

    I've said over and over that if I started in online
    marketing again I would not bother with creating my own
    products, I would focus on the very lucrative world of
    resale rights.

    As such I've been developing a site called
    Resale Rights Guide

    http://www.resale-rights-guide.com

    and looking for suitable products to promote there.

    There are some great advantages in using resale rights (I
    explain why at the site) but even better if you can obtain
    'Private Label Rights'

    This means you get possession of the source documents and
    can edit and modify them in any way with no restrictions.
    You can turn them into small reports, articles, e-courses:
    package them with other products. The scope is
    unlimited.


    So imagine my delight when I found someone has now
    produced a book called "Unlock the Secrets of Private
    Label Rights" a seemingly perfect match for my site.

    And that person is actually an Internet marketing friend
    of mine.

    No not the sort of 'imaginary friend' that gurus tell you
    about, as in "I had a call today from my very good friend
    and I managed to twist his arm to get you a special
    discount".

    He's a real friend who I meet every few months or so for
    lunch to discuss our business activities.

    So what do you say when such a book does not meet the
    standard you expect ?.

    I can't let friendship allow me to recommend an unworthy
    product to my subscribers.

    The name of my friend is Martin Avis and if you have read
    his previous books or his KickStart Today newsletter you
    will know why I fully expected to give this book a 'very
    good' rating and an 8 out of 10 mark.

    Well I'm afraid that Martin did not meet the required standard.

    He has seriously OVER-delivered.

    And I'll have to give him an eleven out of ten.

    See why when you visit his site
    http://www.supertips.com/r/plr-secrets.htm


    By the way I've just seen a forum posting by a neutral
    with no affiliation

    "The book is absolutely brilliant, clearly written and
    very comprehensive. Even very experienced marketers will
    enjoy reading it"



    Oh and about that refund.

    Well Martin is not selling the book through ClickBank but
    through PayDotCom for the first time.

    So he wanted to check that the ordering process worked
    properly.

    He asked me if I could make a test purchase and he would
    refund me.

    I guarantee that will be the only refund he will make.



    Regards
    Harvey
    ------------------------------------------------------

    To subscribe:
    http://www.supertips.com/ezine/

    Newsletter Archives: click HERE


    Last edited by Harvey Segal on Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Jeff Usher



    Joined: 04 Nov 2005
    Posts: 8

    PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Harvey,

    I really do not like this article. It's misleading and nothing but an article disguised as an advert and even had a misleading subject line. You did not DEMAND your first refund as you put it, you were given one because you were a friend of the author.

    Perhaps I'm taking this too seriously but the whole article is written to deceive and does not deliver what the headline states.

    You had my attention right up till:-

    "He has seriously OVER-delivered"

    And then I realised that I had been suckered into another "My good friend" type of ad and you were then going to launch into nothing but hype and affiliate links.

    You've lost me on this one I'm afraid........ I prefer honest marketing, not misleading marketing, even if it is just the written word.

    Just my honest $0.02c opinion.

    Jeff
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    _jc



    Joined: 24 Nov 2005
    Posts: 121
    Location: San Francisco North Bay

    PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I also find it to be the work of a trickster. But my reaction was a laugh and images of Wiley Coyote.

    This does set expectations though. I'll now expect to be fooled in an add next time too. But i don't mind - "that's entertainment".

    Maybe the big question is: What does this do (anything?) to my expectations for solid, honest marketing info?
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    ArtHeadStart.com
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    Martin.Avis



    Joined: 08 Apr 2004
    Posts: 72

    PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    If you think THAT was tricky, you should try having lunch with him sometime.

    The lengths that man will go to to get an extra dessert! Very Happy

    Martin Avis.
    _________________
    Discover 11 ways to profit from private label ebooks! http://www.plrsecrets.com
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    inmarkon



    Joined: 05 Dec 2005
    Posts: 2

    PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    If you have been a reader of Harvey's for any length of time you should know that his off-humor IS his marketing style. What you read was a common tactic he uses - quite successfully.

    Like I said on ABlake - I couldn't believe Harvey would actually be serious about a post like this, yet I was still "got".

    If you can't inject a little levity into what you do then why bother doing it.
    More people should have his sense of humor... Laughing

    And remember - those who try to please everyone ultimately please no one.

    My 2c.

    Mike
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    Adrian Ling
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 563

    PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Jeff,

    imho, Harvey's newsletter is a masterpiece. Nothing dishonest about it,
    but rather, a power (and unique) way of pre-selling rock-solid products
    (if he's promoting a product).

    How many times have you received the 'canned' email (pre-written by the
    merchant) - and every marketer simply cut and paste and send it out to
    their list?

    Now, if anything is dishonest, I would say that's dishonest because 90% of
    the time, that marketer has not seen the actual product, but simply use
    the sample copy provided by the merchant.

    I've read Martin's book myself, and I agree 100% with what he said. The
    book covers every ground possible - from newbie to veterans. I've
    picked up a few useful tips myself.

    (ref: take a look at this thread - from a paid customer:
    http://ablake.net/forum/index.cgi?read=223695)


    Best wishes,
    Adrian

    Quote:

    -------------- side bar ------------
    I would recommend Harvey's newsletters to anyone who's interested
    in writing good copy (subject headline) that gets read:

    http://www.clickbanksuccessforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2670

    Take note of the headlines, read the letter - they're extremely powerful tools for your swipe file Very Happy

    You're getting FREE copy-writing lessons here!

    *Remember, a good story tells ... and SELLs.
    * A good headline gets read.

    _________________
    EasyClickmate - the Original ClickBank Tool
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    reenhanced



    Joined: 08 Nov 2005
    Posts: 2
    Location: Allentown, PA

    PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    This article just left me wondering "Why did he refund it?"

    I had to re-read it to figure out the details. Once you started into the marketing, you lost my interest.

    I'm certain this letter has gotten you results, and I thank you for posting it here.
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    Jeff Usher



    Joined: 04 Nov 2005
    Posts: 8

    PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    imho, Harvey's newsletter is a masterpiece. Nothing dishonest about it


    Adrian,

    Can you tell me where in the content Harvey "DEMANDED" his refund ?

    Can you tell me what the "awkward predicament" about the refund was ?

    Can you tell me why I need to "heed the warning" about the product ?

    "I can't let friendship allow me to recommend an unworthy
    product to my subscribers" - Well, he isn't, wasn't and didn't.

    "Oh and about that refund".... so the whole point of the newsletter has been dismissed at the end by an "oh by the way" statement.

    Imagine if I created a newsletter entitled "Free Web Hosting For All My Subscribers" and then at the end stated... "oh, and about the free web hosting - there isn't any"....... how would your subscribers feel.

    Rant over.

    Jeff
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    Adrian Ling
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 563

    PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    ah ...

    There's always 2 sides to a coin ...

    one can see a half-full cup ... or a half-empty cup.

    Have a great day Jeff!

    Adrian
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    rspenc29



    Joined: 17 Jun 2005
    Posts: 433

    PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I have to agree with Jeff. The only reason that I read it is because I thought he was gonna warn us about a bad product, not try to get my to buy something. Then after jeff's post, we get a bunch of first time posters defending it. Im not mad at cha I just feel that you wasted five minutes of my time that couldve been better spent.
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3147

    PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Keep those responses coming in.

    I'll post my comments later

    But first I must correct two inaccuracies

    Jeff Usher wrote:

    and you were then going to launch into nothing but hype and affiliate links.

    There was ONE affiliate link


    rspenc29 wrote:
    Then after jeff's post, we get a bunch of first time posters defending it

    There was ONE first time poster


    Harvey
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    Jeff Usher



    Joined: 04 Nov 2005
    Posts: 8

    PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Harvey,

    Quote:
    Jeff Usher wrote:

    and you were then going to launch into nothing but hype and affiliate links.

    There was ONE affiliate link


    You've taken that quote out of context. The full sentence reads:-

    Quote:
    And then I realised that I had been suckered into another "My good friend" type of ad and you were then going to launch into nothing but hype and affiliate links.


    Just had to cover myself there Wink

    Jeff
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    inmarkon



    Joined: 05 Dec 2005
    Posts: 2

    PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Harvey Segal wrote:


    rspenc29 wrote:
    Then after jeff's post, we get a bunch of first time posters defending it

    There was ONE first time poster


    Harvey
    And that first time poster was me.

    But being a first time poster doesn't mean I haven't been following Harvey for quite some time. I admire and respect his viewpoints. And I am no newbie to this stuff.

    In my opinion, the post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I read it that way because I know Harvey's posting style. I knew there had to be a hook. So therefore, I did not feel lied to in the least.

    But I can see Jeff's point.

    My advice is to not let it get to you. At the end of the day, it's all subjective. Your viewpoint isn't mine and vice-versa.

    Mike
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    drmani



    Joined: 17 Apr 2004
    Posts: 26

    PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: The REAL Reason harvey Wrote This Review... Reply with quote

    inmarkon wrote:
    If you have been a reader of Harvey's for any length of time you should know that his off-humor IS his marketing style.
    Mike


    Hey Jeff

    Don't take all this flattering stuff about Harvey too seriously - he ***owns*** this forum, y'know, and some folks have to be nice to him - at least in here!

    As for me, I'm ALWAYS bluntly honest - and I know why Harvey wrote this wierd review. It's coz...

    He IS wierd!

    Dr.Mani

    P.S. - Oh, by the way, don't let Harvey's review influence you about Martin's book. Just take a look at the testimonials that litter that sales page - there's at least one in there that's absolutely fair and impartial! Wink

    P.P.S. - I'm just having fun, folks. Feel free to ignore me Shocked

    Oh, and P.P.S. - Harvey, I did NOT receive this issue via email. Did you take me off your list or something?

    On second thought, GOOD Laughing
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    DW



    Joined: 22 May 2005
    Posts: 305

    PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject: tricks and more tricks Reply with quote

    Who hasn't read a headline that never made sense or caused you to read an entire letter making you forget why you started to read it in the first place?

    For those of who actually thaught there would be anything other then a simple "buy this book, visit my website" Laughing

    Harvey, maybe I'll let you use the following to drive people to your site.

    I'm no Guru, but I play one after a few drinks. Embarassed


    -----------------------------------------

    All I can say is, donít do this.

    First, let me just tell yall that Iím new to enter net marketing. I donít know the mumbo jumbo or lingo all them there proís use. I never even went to skool.

    You see, I gruw up on a farm and my pappy ran off with my third cousin and left me and my ma on the farm. So sckool not important when ya the only one to watch over the family farm.

    Maybe you thinkin right now, what could I have to tell ya about the enter net. Iím just a poor farmer with no skoolin.

    Well, that is good question and I see why ya would be thinkin it. However, three or four years ago.. I donít know exact numbers.. I bought my first puter system.

    So what make someone like me sell five cows, two pigs and a chicken to buy his first puter system?

    Money of course.

    No, I not win the lotto or shoot a hole in the ground and have oil come spewín up like my uncle jed. Nope. I ran into a man one day while farmin who tell me he makes lots and lots of money on the enter net.

    When I say I ran into him. I did.

    I was farmin way from the house. Way.. Way from the house, so ma couldnít see. I like to sip some shine from time to time and ma donít like it. So, there I be on my tractor.. drinkin some shine and listenín to Reba. (I got one of them fancy tractors with a built in music box)

    Anyway I was not lookín, just drinkin an plowin when bam! I ran slap through the cow fence and into the side of a car.

    Oops.

    Well funny thing, man not that mad when I tell him I have no money to pay for his car. We talk fer hours. Me in jeans with shine soakín my drawers and this city man in a suit that looked like the president himself would put on.

    He tell me no problem and how he make money the enter net. Lots of money. I stood there listenín to this man. Even taken notes.

    By the time the sunset and this city man had left, I knew I could make money too on this enter net thing. So the next day I went to wal mart.

    At wal mart I met up with someone with some skoolín to ask how I can go to this enter net that Mr. City man told me bout. This guy was smart, he was already in his 11 year of skool. I had a hard time keepín up with what he was speakín. But he did tell me everything I needed.

    I sold five cows, two pigs and a chicken and went back to wal mart and bought my puter system and was on the enter net ready to make money.

    I click button after button and make a dollar or two in just one day!

    This was easier then farmin!

    I want more, like when I only drink one jar a shine. Not good enough, need more.

    I discover enter net marketing. Even meet a man so powerful that everyone on the enter net call him the GURU.

    A man so powerful that he has his own group of friends. I didnít understand this at all, but it seems they all say good things bout one another and trade pictures of each other back an fourth.

    So I buy one of there books they say is easy to read. I think it was wrote just for me. Easy to read and for anyone who want to make lots more money on the enter net. It was bout a thing called Google Adwords.

    I sit here now, in my farm house sir-rounded by lots of suit types and people who work at the bank.

    They are here taken all my stuff out of my house and say they gonna sell it all. I lose my tractor with the fancy built in music box, they even take my Nascar collection. I canít keep written much longer cause they say they gonna take this here puter system too.

    I guess I should have listened to another man I met on the enter net all along. His name was Harvey Segal. I will try to tell you about what he said before these dang suit types take my puter from me.

    Harvey said, what you need to do to make lots and lots of money on the enter net wasssssssssssssssssssss
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3147

    PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DW,

    Great article.

    Make sure that the man they called The Guru doesn't use
    his name to replace mine.

    If he does we can refer back to this post with it's date
    and time stamp to prove what was the original.


    Harvey
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3147

    PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DW wrote:
    Who hasn't read a headline that never made sense or caused you to read an entire letter making you forget why you started to read it in the first place?

    Exactly.

    Why do you think hundreds of people have read
    Issue 84: Internet marketing - and my cat here ?

    Did they expect I would explain how my cat now
    runs his own web site ?

    That's impossible.

    Come on.

    I mean - I tried to show him how to design a web page but he kept attacking the mouse


    Harvey
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    Jeff Usher



    Joined: 04 Nov 2005
    Posts: 8

    PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I tried to teach my cat how to use the VCR..... but all he could do was use the paws button Wink

    Jeff
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3147

    PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Jeff Usher wrote:
    I tried to teach my cat how to use the VCR..... but all he could do was use the paws button Wink

    Jeff

    And here was I trying to cut out humour on this forum

    Harvey
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