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    First Cookie Last Cookie Talk
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    No Way



    Joined: 15 Apr 2004
    Posts: 85

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: First Cookie Last Cookie Talk Reply with quote

    I've noticed on some other boards some discussion about whether the last affiliate or the first affilate cookie gets the credit. I know the ClickBank policy is the last affiliate. I also know that ClickBank has done some sort of security thing (which is good) to keep affiliates from coming right back with their own nickname to buy a product in order to cut the first affiliate out of their commission and putting it in their own pockets.

    This leads me to believe that there must be some sort of time limit on just how soon someone can return to a site already visited and get the first affiliate's cookie overwritten by their own. This seems to be an explantion for those affiliates that are doing all this testing and swear up and down that at times the first affiliates cookie is getting the credit (simply because the return visit was before the time limit for overwriting expired on the first cookie).

    Since I believe ClickBank and the Affiliates too, this is the only explanation I can come up with that would explain this mystery. But, what do I know! Can someone that actually knows shed any light on this return time limit theory? And if so, does it still work even if the returning affiliate deletes all his cookies before returning:?:
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3148

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: First Cookie Last Cookie Talk Reply with quote

    No Way wrote:
    I also know that ClickBank has done some sort of security thing (which is good) to keep affiliates from coming right back with their own nickname to buy a product in order to cut the first affiliate out of their commission and putting it in their own pockets.


    I believe that what you may be referring to is an old
    rule, viz

    If a customer visited a sales page on more than one
    occasion, as a result of following links supplied by
    different affiliates, the rule was that the last
    affiliate using a 'website' link got priority.

    This meant that a link in an Email did not override a
    prior link from a website. In such a case it would
    appear that the first affiliate got commission.

    In January 2004 the rule was changed, now the last
    affiliate gets the commission no matter where the source
    of the link is located.

    Alternatively you may be thinking of a period in the
    past where in fact the rule was indeed that the first
    affiliate got the credit.

    Harvey
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    No Way



    Joined: 15 Apr 2004
    Posts: 85

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:35 pm    Post subject: Fast Round Trip Reply with quote

    Thanks for the quick reply,

    Just so I understand this now, if I click on a link, say in the google search engine results, go to a vendors site and decide maybe I'll just buy me one of these but decide it would be more profitable if I was to leave and go to my own website (since I have a hoplink to the same merchant myself, see) and then click my own link (thereby overwriting the cookie I just got from the google affiliate) I can now have this same fine product at half the cost and get away with it? Embarassed
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3148

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That is correct

    Harvey
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    Harvey Segal
    Site Admin


    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
    Posts: 3148

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Did you ever hear about what happened when the rules
    changed ?

    Of all the rotten luck I had just had two affiliates
    from China join me, li hong first and chu chow last.

    They were both arguing over who should get the
    commission.

    I had to spend two tortuous hours in a 3-way
    conversation splattered with broken English explaining
    to first that he got commission because he was last and
    apologizing to last because he was first.

    Harvey
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Actually, I was one of the ones that stated in another forum that I thought the first affiliate was getting credit last month for awhile. This was just my opinion at the time, and I don't know for sure if this was actually happening. I was basing this on my Adwords stats. I had a few keywords that always got me sales in the past, and on the 24th sales with these keywords completely stopped. I also went for 3/4ths of the day on the 25th with no sales. I noticed these keywords were no longer getting me sales, so I raised my bid on these keywords to go ahead of my competitor. I had one competitor selling the same product which always stayed one or two positions ahead of me on Adwords, but I was still getting sales on these keywords prior to this. After raising my bids on these keywords, I immediately started seeing sales the remainder of that day and the next three days were very good. Then sales went back to normal. It is hard to say what happened, sales are always going to be up and down from day to day no matter which product you promote or which network you participate in. The reason I knew the keywords were not getting sales was because I got the merchant to add my Adwords tracking code to the thank you page, so I knew where sales were coming from.

    This week sales have slowed down again, and after advertising costs I am not making much at all. I haven't seen one sale yet today. I don't know what is going on now. If this keeps up I will have to reduce my advertising spending until something straightens out. Some people are telling me this always happens the week of April 15 with the tax deadline, but I can't believe everyone waits until the last minute to file taxes. Hopefully they are right and sales will increase again next week. One or two consecutive days of lower sales are normal, but I expect some good days to make up for them. I'm not getting the good days this week.
    February and March were pretty good months for me, but this month has been slower except for a few good days.

    In fact, I started promoting another product which gave me $20 in commissions, and I sold some of these this month. If it wouldn't have been for this product, my sales would be much lower than usual this pay period.




    Wayne Bardell


    Last edited by wayne on Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Guy



    Joined: 15 Apr 2004
    Posts: 3
    Location: Ottawa, Canada

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Wayne,

    So you are the Wayne I read about in the other forum and whom I talk about in my topic "Are we getting all the commissions we deserve". Well I'm glad to see I'm not alone seeing bad days... bad days which lead me to be suspicious of something affecting our sales.

    Today is the third consecutive day it's been very very slow... like you said, I'm thinking of stoping my ads...

    Guy
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Steve,

    What is going on? You can't tell me everything is ok today. It is now
    7PM here, and not one sale yet. I was just reading a post on the
    Warriors forum, where someone else said they have not had any
    sales today either, and they usually have 15 by now. I haven't had
    a zero sale day in a long, long time.

    Wayne Bardell


    Last edited by wayne on Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Tony Newton



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 7
    Location: UK

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi

    This does sound a bit strange??

    As for the topic of this thread, surely in an ideal world the first cookie should get the credit and not the last.

    As we all know, it takes many contacts with customers to make a sale,
    so why should the last cookie get the credit?

    Let's have some comments!

    Tony
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Tony,

    So you are saying that if you go into Walmart and see a product that
    you are interested in but don't purchase it, and then later go to Kmart
    and see the same product and decide to buy it, that Walmart should
    get the money since you saw it there first?

    Wayne
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    allbiz



    Joined: 16 Apr 2004
    Posts: 2
    Location: New Mexico

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Guys,

    Just a quick response to the reference to April 15th and taxes.

    I can verify with over 30 years in outside sale in the US, that the week that "The Tax Man Cometh" definitely has an affect. It's the standard excuse that was given to my sales reps every year.

    Is it an excuse? Yeah, but one that most sales folks accept. I used to give my guys (and gals) a couple of free days off. I think part of it has to do with that fact that we live in a world of "procrastinators." Put off doing the taxes until the deadline, then create this entire psychological fear of loss.

    Anyway, the good news is that's usually a very short bubble and by Monday here in the US, all will be forgotten and forgiven. Very Happy

    By the way, GREAT forum.
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    allbiz



    Joined: 16 Apr 2004
    Posts: 2
    Location: New Mexico

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Oops! Almost forgot.

    Harvey, thanks for posting this new forum on the EBW Forum! I'd have never known othewise! Wink
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    Tony Newton



    Joined: 14 Apr 2004
    Posts: 7
    Location: UK

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi Wayne

    What I am saying is that, it takes a great deal of effort to get someone to visit a site and follow up with them numerous times.

    So you may go to all that effort and doing all the groundwork with that person, only for them to see that offer again, click the link, buy the product and you get no commision whatsoever.

    So although you have pre-sold that offer already, you get nothing, zip, nada! Crying or Very sad

    First cookie should always get the credit IMHO.

    Tony
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    Harvey Segal
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    Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Tony Newton wrote:

    First cookie should always get the credit IMHO.


    Tony,

    There are pros and cons for both options (first or last
    affiliate) but during a discussion thread at the
    Warrior forum some months ago people voted
    overwhelmingly (more than 95%) in favour of the last
    affiliate.


    Harvey
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Patty,

    I'm not buying the argument that tax day was the reason for no sales
    at all yesterday. I switched my promotions over to another merchant
    outside of Clickbank late last night, and have had two sales from them.
    And late night, early morning is my slowest period for sales. I see
    hardly no traffic in the early morning hours, it starts to pick up a lot
    more after 9am or 10am. I am going to leave my promotions up with
    this other merchant today and see how things go. I've gone over my
    last 8months stats with Clickbank, and I've only had one other zero
    sale day in that time period and I think that was because I was trying another product
    that day also. Or maybe tax day affects Clickbank but not this other
    merchant, LOL.

    Update: I just checked my stats with Adwords, and I've had 17 clicks
    to my promotion this morning, and 2 sales from this other merchant. Pretty
    good conversion. I have much more traffic than this to my site, but like
    I said my traffic doesn't pick up until after 9am or so. Hope this
    conversion keeps up the rest of the day.

    Wayne


    Last edited by wayne on Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Tony,

    All I can see with the first affiliate getting credit is the pay per clicks
    getting rich. If the first affiliate got credit, the first person listed in
    the results would get all the sales, and there would be no reason
    for anyone else to even promote that product at all. You can ask
    how everyone is promoting products from Clickbank, and I'll bet a
    large percentage of them are using pay per click. The pay per clicks
    would see their profits going up with everyone upping their bids to
    be number one. You need to have a strong enough sales letter to
    convince people to buy from your site and not from another's.

    Wayne
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    No Way



    Joined: 15 Apr 2004
    Posts: 85

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject: Pay for Performance Reply with quote

    What if the customer had been to 7 other sites before buying, should all 7 split the commission? The first 7 didn't cut it, they failed, they produced no results, the bottom line equaled zero, nada, zilch. If the customer had never gone to the 8th site, the sale may have never happened at all.

    Should the site that functioned, that actually got the sale be the one that gets nothing. The first site had their chance, maybe it was the last site that offered the juicy enough copy to actually convince the customer to wait no longer, time is running out, this is as good as it gets, gimme your hard earned money and do it now, this bribe is the one that you are wanting and is the most useful for you personally.

    Lets use the car lot for an example, customer walks up to look at cars, salesman a goes out, talks smart, slaps him in the face with a hundred paper popups, screams in his ear and finally the customer says hey, I don't like you, beat it, go back inside where you belong, shutup, sit down and get outa my face, I want to talk to someone with good sense.

    Then salesman b goes out and talks decent, treats the customer like he has normal intelligence and then sells him a car. Who should get the commission? According to one post, 95% of affiliates feel that salesman b should. But, the crowd is wrong a lot of times too so what do I know!
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    Steve



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 75
    Location: Boise, Idaho USA

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Wayne,

    Overall CB sales for April 15th were down 13% from the previous day. We had a good pace going during the first half of the day, but sales slowed significantly in the evening hours. Not unexpected for tax day.

    Importantly though, the percentage of affiliate-assisted sales was consistent with the normal average. There is nothing broken at CB.
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    deleted

    Last edited by wayne on Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    wayne



    Joined: 13 Apr 2004
    Posts: 762

    PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Steve,

    I've sent you more specific information regarding my account via
    a private message like you requested. Hopefully we can get this
    thing figured out.

    Wayne
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